Well here's the short and sweet: On September 3, 2008 (or even a day or two before that) Russia issued a formal ultimatum to NATO that it must remove its fleet from the Black Sea or the Russian Military will strike and sink every ship stationed there. This would essentially be the start of WWIII between Russia and NATO. It's been rumored that Russia has also been moving men and materials to Venezuela and Cuba, flying bombers over Norway and even reports of Russian Supersonic bombers flying near the East Coat United States. On top of this, Hugo Chavez has given American Ambassadors a three day deadline to get out of Venezuela accusing them of inciting violent uprisings against the established government. To make matters worse, should Israel or the United States attack Iran, Russia will intervene. If this happens, things here in the States will get real ugly real fast as Bush has the ability to declare a national emergency, institute martial law, and call off the 2008 elections due to the powers given to him under NSPD51.

Youtube video link <-- Make sure to read the info panel on this one.
Youtube video link

Has anybody else heard anything about this? As much as I want it to be untrue, it certainly makes a lot of sense considering the recent events that have been going on around the world.

*EDIT*
I'll start to scrub the internet looking at the independent and international news sites tomorrow (after I get back from work because I'm gonna go to sleep for now) and I'll see what I can find and put it up for you guys. If anybody else has any information or links suggesting this is true or that it's false, then by all means post it up.

fuck, if this is true, the planet goes to the shitter...

What are we doing to ourselves. I'm scared.

There will be no war with Russia its political games, because behind doors and top secret projects the military organizations are many many years ahead of what the local populace know about, the us has a long history of developing anything that can be weaponized, is being researched by foreign powers or is of special interest is given almost unlimited funding for the purposes of national security, its safe to say they have some good toys by now.

The US have so many black operations that are years if not decades ahead of what we know and understand even in our technological world today because it has to be that way to maintain the public life the populace has to maintain governmental rule, what would happen to society if people could walk through walls? be invisible etc... it's known that in the 80's they where at leaset 80 years ahead of public technology as operation paperclip staff have attested to, in many area's back then from records available from FOI, they have area 51 where the president can legally be executed because he himself does not have clearance to certain areas, the us have bases in most countries, and there show nukes that are by now obsolete, they have some very good satellite weapons that are old now, that came from projects in mind control under project paperclip some years ago where from the public documents you can get bu FOI you can see mind control was even back then almost perfected, sacraficing and slaughtering the innocent to perfect there work, and weapons to be mounted on satellites that can cause all living life to halt due to a grounding effect on the nervous system shown in FOI documents, They have had superpowerful forcefields, ray guns and god knows what for a long time, only just trickling into the public eye recently, so that means its outdated, they also have subs the size of 3 football pitches that can wipe out the planet many times over and of course there space navy.

Though I cannot prove a space navy, it is clear where US air bases have opened UFO accounts have been made when the US moved there top secret craft to there new bases for operational readiness, UFO's flew over the white house when the us was at war with hitler, resulting in a massive operation to release films and media that all depict what would happen and how the us and the world would survive to prevent mass panic, patents from german car manufacturers clearly show basic and very specific and working UFO's capable of space flight, high ranking generals openly releasing information about ET craft to the media in the recent past, they have craft that can reach full space from the ground and as high generals have publicly said, we do not need the old antique rockets to get into space anymore, and any superpower knows if the moon was taken by any space navy that country would essentially have global rule of the planet, with the clear black projects and of course with the technological advances that can be tracked from the little FOI documents you can get that were not destroyed or made deeper levels than top secret, being just the tip of the iceberg of what they have and there long history of doing anything to ensure they can defend against any threat, at any cost, it is clear that the old, we have nukes, you have nukes, well all die if anyone launches anything game is outdated and the public can only guess what the reality currently is.

In short, Russia would likely be dust in a microsecond and they know it, it's ok to play political games close to home, but any attack that threatens the usa too badly would result in swift annihilation without a seconds thought.

I've heard of the Russian bombers flying into British airspace up the North of Scotland. They're not a presumed threat as it is though because the bombers are pretty ancient, they just get intercepted and escorted away before they even get close, and even then the Norwegian air force usually gives the RAF an early warning / kindly takes care of them for us seeming they have to intrude on Norwegian airspace to get here.

It's been presumed it's just a result of the deteriorating relations between Russia and the UK in the last few years, Russia throwing diplomats out, the Litvinenko assassination, the increasing number of spies caught by MI5, etc. Add in the other business more recently with the American influence intruding on their playground and it's pretty clear they're just throwing the toys out of the pram and trying to claw back a bit of their former glory.

Don't know what to say about everything else in the videos/OP, I can't imagine an actual world war starting over any of this, it seems alittle paranoid. But who knows.

It's just politics, its all a game in my opinion.

When Russia got there old bombers out of storage it was obvious back then from Russian news it was politics, clearly showing there public they have the power to defend ourselves, and of course being able to show you have bombers in enemy airspace backs that up, the us responds with similar things, we had jets in the air and escorted them out, same as the uk etc...

What's funny is the fact that the current whole silly business of the USA wanting a radar station closer to Russia is as BS because of the tech they already have making it obsolete, its an excuse, and they have satellites, its as pathetic as the Russians previews woodpecker psychological attack on the states in the past that used Nikolia Tesla work, the results was as you would expect, if you research it the us capital citys power backfired and the populace went crazy becoming riots and uncontrollable from ELF signals. This is old technology, I can only imagine what they have now.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=r_O0hD5nQVg
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-YX5AQK1BAM

BTW, tesla tried to make every country unite by sending them all part of his deathray invention, figuring that they all had to work togeather to have it so no one country could take over the world, hehe.
But honestly, we will all be fine, unless it is of course engineered and planned.

How the hell did war with russia get onto fucking mind control, forcefields and lasers.

That array responsible for the woodpecker is visible as the 'brain scorcher' in STALKER, funnily enough.

hehe, yea it is in stalker.

Tbh, I have no idea, XuCHiLbaRa, all I know is I was actually playing S.T.A.L.K.E.R again, I am at the mind control part with the brain fryer thing near the end, so I can only imagine that's what set my mind in that specific direction, taking the topic somewhat off topic, hehe, sorry.

Speaking of Star Wars and technology, the Soviets are also building a second Death Star in the orbit of Endor with Venezuelan contractors.

fuck i knew it, i guess its time to start the rebellion yet again

http://www.cracked.com/article_16477_5-fam...y-building.html

Zerg suiciders own the air >_>

Not to mention a Space Navy, UFO's, asking Martians about radio signals, and the confusion of "There" and "Their". I've heard of all sorts of theories about this and that including technology to control the weather... bunch of wacky Sci-Fi shit if you ask me. We already have microwave arrays and railguns, but that technology is still being tested and is nowhere near ready for full scale (or even limited) deployment.

Commando, there were many proxy battles fought against the USSR during the Cold War, and by now we've allied ourselves with all but a few of Russia's old satellite states, and occupy just about every country on their border with military bases. What's been going on is a very carefully calculated game of Chess, but the stakes are very real, and the consequences are as well... it's political games as you said, but make no mistake there already HAS been war for the past 50 years. All that's left to take are the high price pieces.

Anyway, here are links to some news articles:
New York Times August 27, 2008
United Press International, August 30, 2008
The Daily Star August 28, 2008
RIA Novosti August 29, 2008
TV Press article on Infowars.com September 4, 2008
Associated Press article on Infowars.com September 6, 2008

So for those of you (probably not many so I'm just sort of preaching to the choir here) who don't know the background of what's going on, ever since the end of the Cold War and the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Russia has been at odds with NATO over what they consider Anti-Russian policy concerning Eastern European affairs. It is Russia's opinion that NATO is making steps to effectively surround them with their former satellite states and even in the Middle East. The acceptance of Georgia and Ukraine into NATO would just further strain their relationship as those are countries that Russia has traditionally had in it's sphere of influence. While Russia has made attempts in the past to join, most if not every attempt was vetoed or voted against, this along with ousting Russia from the G8 and alienating them from the rest of Europe and the Western world, Russia has (understandably) taken a defensive stance towards NATO.

What's going on right now is that NATO and the United States are supposedly providing humanitarian aid to Georgia using warships to transport the cargo. Russia is accusing the United States and NATO of supplying Georgia with not only humanitarian aid, but also providing them with military equipment to bolster the Georgian military citing that warships are not built to be cargo ships as they are purpose built only for war. To aggravate matters moreso, US Vice President Dick Cheney is currently in Georgia calling for the immediate introduction of Georgia into NATO, and has also been discussing energy (read: oil) with Mikheil Saakashvili. Thusly, they have issued a 21 day ultimatum to NATO (21 days based on the 1936 Montreal Convention) that all ships are to be removed from the Black Sea or they will be attacked and sunk.

Elanzer: Yeah what they're probably doing is Saber Rattling to prove that much like the United States, they'll stop at no lengths to piss off other nations.

Its simply just that, saber rattling. Russia isn't going to sink anything. If they were to attack they'd just stomp out all of Eastern Europe and throw the Iron Curtain back up.

is dick cheney in the front lines with a shotgun or something?

anyway, rail gun technology is actually conceptually simple, but the coolest thing i that not only do the rails shoot the thing forward, but also the semiconductor behind the projectile, beig a semiconductor, has less resistance at higher temperatures, so it ends up getting uncontrollably hotter (shitloads of volts and amps are needed) and then becomes fucking plasma and shoots the thing with even greater force, so a rail gun is in essence a plasma enhanced rail gun, all this can be understood with high school level physics, shit that's futuristic is actually quite simple from a physicist's point of view

When did the US split from NATO?

Never?

I was poking fun at Donut's post.

lol they didn't obviously, but it seems sometimes that the United States being a De Facto member likes to go off and do what it wants despite the rest of the organization. That's what it seems like at least.

and yes, I realize you're just poking fun at the post.


Maybe, but considering how far into their backyard NATO is encroaching, it's only a matter of time until they can no longer continue to just rattle their saber and have to take some sort of action. By looking at the past records it's obvious that NATO has indeed been taking a passively aggressive policy towards Russia by favoring nation splits (such as Kosovo) and acceptances into NATO that are unfavorable to Russia while at the same time refusing to recognize areas such as South Ossetia and Abkhazia from breaking off from their respective regime to join Russia.

Match this with the reports I mentioned earlier of Russian men and materials being moved to Cuba and Venezuela, it would seem as though they are getting desperate and exasperated with getting nowhere with NATO.


Could you think of any better deterrent for war?

Russia will fight a war of proxies before it will fight the US directly. If they didn't do it in the Cold War they certainly don't have the capability to do it now. And if the Russians weren't able to gain a foothold in countries in the Western Hemisphere other than Cuba during the Cold War, theres no way they'll be able to do it now. They can't encroach on our backyard with the same effectiveness we and NATO can.

Sigh. Whatever the reason I think we can all agree the EU is already paying the price for all this eastward expansion.

I never understood why the EU is expanding as far east as they have, there really isn't any economic benefit in admitting certain Eastern European countries. But if we're going to try Kennan's perspective, I guess it makes some sense...

don't forget the oil and methane in russia, could be iraq all over again... but with a actual army on the other side

Nuclear war for oil? Come on now.

I don't think anyone involved with this is stupid enough to go nuclear.

no way nuclear, MAD will stop anyone, they all know one nuke means world's end.

Bring it on bitches, fire them nukes. I got black Jesus on my side.

Eastward expansion is part of the Agenda, trust me. If you ever get the time, go pick up a book called, "The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and it's Geostrategic Imperatives" written by a man named Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski was a national security adviser for the Carter administration and further advised the Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr. administrations and currently is extremely active in many global organizations including Amnesty International, Counsel on Foreign Relations, National Endowment for Democracy, was the director of the Trilateral Commission currently on the executive committee, and was a former member of Freedom House. Additionally, he is currently a trustee and counselor for the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a board member for the American Committee for Peace in the Caucasus, on the advisory board of America Abroad Media, and on the advisory board of Partnership for a Secure America.

There's so much he covers in that book in depth, along with his other publications. The point is though, this man knows what's going on in the world, and laid out the plan nice and neat for all the world to see all the way back in 1997. It's a good read, I suggest you at least borrow it from a library if you get the chance to someday.

Zbigniew Brzezinski's Wikipedia page. <---Link

I think it's safe to say considering the man's credentials that when he writes and publishes a book it should be taken seriously, especially when so far every point made has been followed through on. Yes, Eastward expansion of NATO, UN, and the EU is on the agenda, and yes, eliminating Russia from the equation is as well whether by force or by hard ball politics. That's why this situation in the Black Sea worries me so much, because I've read this book and as I said, it's like a chess game where all the pieces are in place, and all that's left to take are the high price pieces. It's why they want to introduce Georgia and Ukraine into NATO, and why they want to set up missile batteries in Poland. It forces Russia into a corner.

Whats so bad about Russia? They have good vodka!

AND IT WILL BE OURS!

OHNOEZ !
World war 3

Well let's hope not man... I really hope that I'm wrong that all this is just hysterical paranoia, and just a bunch of coincidences.

What's really telling though is that civil unrest is increasing more and more as the market tanks, while people are getting angrier and angrier as their civil liberties are being encroached upon more and more. The RNC was a perfect example of this because they basically rounded up and arrested massive amounts of people who were protesting peacefully against the war in Iraq and objecting to John McCain's nomination. Heck, about 8 people who hadn't committed any crimes were arrested as suspected terrorists because the police claimed they were going to try an incite violence when their group was helping to organize several of the various peaceful protest groups together for a city wide protest... they're the first American citizens to be charged with terrorism, and this after people kept saying the Patriot Act was okay because it would never be used against them. Same with the DNC, there were mass arrests, and even a group of Marines speaking out against the war had a long standoff with riot police which thankfully ended peacefully. We're already living in a police state, and if things don't change soon, we're just one disaster away from martial law in the United States which would undoubtedly cause, to even a small degree, violent uprisings.

Whatever riots there were at both conventions were isolated incidents and it's suspected that Police were behind inciting them in the first place. It's not the first time they've tried it either, police were caught trying to start shit at the SPP Meet in Montebello, Quebec, and at the WTO meeting in Seattle, Washington. In Montebello they literally dressed up as Black Bloc Anarchists and carried rocks around threatening people, while at the WTO the government boarded up actual Black Bloc anarchists, and stood by while they wreaked havoc until finally moving in and suppressing the entire area. The Quebec Police openly admitted to what they did, and 7 years later Seattle decided to give the protesters who were arrested a cash settlement acknowledging that what they did was wrong.

Meanwhile the Federal Reserve just keeps on bailing out failing mortgage and insurance companies that are "too big to fail" despite the fact that their failures were the result of irresponsible lending practices. So now we basically own all those companies, and pay for them to stay in business, but we don't receive any of the benefits of their services. What people don't get either is that when we bail these companies out we're printing up a fuckton of money out of literally nothing, and that devalues the dollar. In one day the price of an ounce of gold went up 85 dollars and people don't know why... I'll tell you why; it's because the dollar is worth less (or worthless... either way it's true) and therefore the same amount of gold takes more dollars to equate in value. *EDIT* According to economic expert, Peter Schiff, once the rest of the world figures out what's going on with our economy, they're going to raise interest rates, dump the dollar, and the value of it will go down so fast that gold going up 500 dollars in one day could easily happen.
Peter Schiff interviewed by Don Harrold <--- Youtube link

It's just fucking upside down flippin' crazy. That's what it is. It's crazy, and it pisses me the fuck off at the same time that it scares the hell out of me.

*EDIT*
If anybody wants any videos of the mass arrests at the RNC or the standoff between the Marines and the Riot Police, or even the Quebec police incident or WTO incident, I can go look those up on Youtube and link some videos on those as well.

Some journalism majors from my school were actually arrested for photographing the demonstrations at the RNC.

Yeah dude it's fucking bullshit. I subscribe to a guy on Youtube who was there, and there are plenty of videos of the mass arrests happening to obviously peaceful gatherings. Reminds me of a something somebody once said...

"If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution inevitable."
-John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Relevant to topic:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7628899.stm

Also:


I've been waiting for a few years now to see how this will play out. Pakistan is the cancer in the side of Afghanistan and the 'war on terror', and until they are removed the problems will never be properly solved. But they obviously don't take kindly to US forces entering their country unannounced, and even if they did somehow get limited access I don't think they'd be particularly well received considering the recent waves of US airstrikes that have slaughtered civilians in the area.

Russian exercises don't really scare me, if they want to waste their time dicking around the Venezuelan coast with their mothballed ships, fine. NATO used to do similar shit in Turkey all the time.

Coalition troops should have been in those border regions of Pakistan years ago. The Pakistani gov't is unwilling to cooperate in that region because they're incompetent, corrupt, and infiltrated.

I wouldn't say it's mothballed, it was only launched in 1996 and it's one of the largest/most powerful in their navy. Add to that it's accompanied by other ships and a couple of bombers, and it's certainly a bold statement.

I take hostility against the US as completely unsurprising. It was eventually going to happen, and this country is either going to be knocked back into place, or obliterated, just hopefully i can remove myself from here before that happens

Their navy is no where up to par with western fleets anymore. Much of it has been mothballed and scrapped since the end of the Cold War, and some of the more modern ships they have been producing have been laid down for years and may have been cancelled. I thought most of their aircraft carriers were also sold off to former bloc countries like Ukraine or China, denying the Russians an effective aero-naval wing, something that every navy must have to be successful in combat operations. The Russians are also ineffective at amphibious warfare, with their equivalent to the Marines only numbering around 10,000 men. A conventional attack by the Russians against the United States is a pipe dream. Russia is just flexing muscle.

Of course, nobody actually thinks they're going to attack... It's just a political statement.

I know, and thats why nothing will happen, but others are acting paranoid like "omg guys Russia isn't dicking around I better leave this country before it gets blown to smitherenes."

Honestly I'm kind of intrigued by the resurgence of Russian power.

Well it won't happen militarily, but economically, politically... One way or another I believe the glory years are over.

I agree.

Pretty much. It's nothing more than a political statement, if Russia is going to do war anywhere, it's going to be on their terms and on their turf. Preferably in a series of proxy wars as they've always done. Let us weaken and overstretch ourselves and when the time is right just make a political/economic move rather than a militant one. Even that's unlikely to succeed however since we've still got the rest of NATO on our side, even if they do somehow convince China to back them up in any endeavor they undertake. (Although technically, China already has us by the balls since we owe them more money than we can pay them back so all China needs is a good reason to drop all their dollar supply and redistribute it into other, more worthwhile denominations... such as the EURO)

I haven't heard anything recently about the Black Sea situation so hopefully that means the NATO fleet has departed, or they called Russia's bluff. If it's the former, then it shows that NATO either takes Russia seriously, or they simply finished what they were doing there, but if the latter then it really shows that Russia is willing to stand down when backed into a corner... all bark and no bite.

In any case, right now things are still not good because the United States (and the rest of the world for that matter) is on the brink of an economic collapse. Russia knows that, and so does China, and as I said before, China already has us by the balls and if they so chose to, could utterly ruin us by simply calling in their loans and dropping the dollar like a hot potato. Once they did that, every country in a similar position would follow suit and the house of cards we call an economy would just come crashing down on our heads. Whether or not they'll do that though depends on their eagerness to deal with a worldwide depression and whether or not they'll benefit in the long run from it.

In other words: not likely

They'd just be fucking themselves over. I think they'll make the transition to stronger currencies that actually have backings some time in the near future... or at least I wouldn't be surprised if that did happen.

Yeah that's more or less what I meant. That would essentially be the same thing as "dumping the dollar".

It would have the obvious consequences at first, but in the end they would see benefit from it since as you sad, those currencies have actual backing. I mean... I said it isn't likely but now that I think about it I really don't know... a lot of economic pundits are split on this issue as well, with the ones saying it'll never happen generally being more nationalistic than the ones who say it can happen who try to think more realistically. Another issue as well stemming from the same issue would be oil. Currently most if not all oil producing nations sell their oil to the international market in denominations of dollars, prior to their invasion (and probably one of the main reasons the invasion happened), Iraq had been considering selling their oil to Europe in EURO's and, if I'm not mistaken, Iran is currently considering the same idea. Mostly due to the fact that as was mentioned; the EURO is more valuable and has actual backing to it. If that were to happen, the dollar would lose a significant amount of it's value, and given the current market, it would probably downright crumble.

There's a lot of uncertainty, and I probably seem foolish by getting all worried over gloom and doom, but I can't think of any good reason to blame me for it. Most of what's going on is reality, and not some crazy conspiracy theory, and that's what makes it scary.

i doubt that ww3 is going to happen but if it does... then Russia FtW lol. but honestly war is so fuggin dumb and pointless, just killing 1 person for more power, money, or land, isnt worth it.

That's a pretty bad description of war.

THEN DESCRIBE IT FOR US MR. WOLF!