Don't know if any of you have heard of or seen the original Dispatches documentary 'Undercover Mosque', but the sequel was on TV last night and considering all the religion talk lately I figured it's worth sharing. The first one caused outrage in the UK, from many Muslims about their privacy within their holy mosques being invaded and that it "wasn't fair", and for everyone else for the discovered hatred that was being preached within. This is a return to some of the same locations a year later to see what's really changed. Surprise surprise, not much.

I'm just hoping there's 'sufficient evidence' to arrest this scum this time around.

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMMc1F6GNuQ
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UsImtN_4Z0
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIvuc1SryuY
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afmvkmr4wBI
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCw-u6BnPc0

That's some pretty sick stuff.

One of the many reasons I despise the gulf states.

just got in an argument with two muslims about atheism, lol. they started it by asking whether i believed in god, when i said no, thy started arguing...

also why i hate gulf states as well as their general arrogance

Why is Channel 4 so much quality and dump at the same time?

Blasphemy, everything on 4 is brilliant.

I cannot stand BB. That might be my personal fallacy.

Since we mentioned him in the other thread, here's a video of Pat Condell talking about Islam and their war on Freedom in the UK and UN.

Pat Condell <--- Link (Ugh... stupid, subtle, same colored links)

What makes it worse is we'll all be sucking Saudi cock for oil soon enough.


Then don't watch it if it's not your thing. Doesn't really change the fact it's a good programme, especially in comparison to the foreign adaptations of BB.

The sad part about it is that the possibility for an alternative is out there if we just put the efforts into it. I read somewhere that hemp could actually be used to produce gasoline... among alllll the other things that it's already used for. (A great many at that)

When you look at all the benefits of the stuff, and then compare it to the drawbacks (which are very few) you'd wonder why it's prohibited. (Here's a hint: You can't put a patent on products made by natural re$ource$). But that's a different discussion altogether (oddly I don't smoke weed myself, I just realize the benefits of the plant itself).

On the other hand, here in the United States we apparently still sit on top of Trillions of dollars worth of crude... but the EPA and other regulations prevent us from tapping those resources. Meanwhile I've heard also that Russia has considerable resources of their own should they chose to tap it and sell it... and here's good news for the Europeans; they wouldn't sell it in dollar denominations.

solar power, it's being slowed down by oil companies who want to keep the monopoly on energy, but it is perfect, all it needs is more grants.

Here in holland our kabinet is making plans for nuclear power plants.. I wonder if the isreal will treathen us if we have a "nuclear" program by then.

My physics teacher explained something about nuclear power plants to us just the other day. In the long run, you really don't want to have anything to do with them. Once they can't be used anymore they basically just have to be buried under ass-tons of dirt and other stuff, then the area is quarantined because of the massive radiation levels.

Your country isn't full of brown people so it's likely they'll leave you alone.

Talking about muslims. Anyone hear about the muslim women who refused to get married some time ago? They were buried alive, lol.

Anyways, will watch all this tomorrow when I got time

edit: Decided to watch the first part now, all i can say is:

BITCH GTFO AND TAKE YOUR FAIL WITH YOU. WHY DONT YOU GO BACK TO THE SHITHOLE YOU CAME FROM.

Suggestions for everyone on this forum living in the UK: force the muslims into the mosque, chain the doors, and set the entire fucking building on fire.

we've got our fair share of muslims here. It also aint helping that our goverment is left. Wich means they give in to every stupid demands the muslims here maken. I remember reading in the news that a muslim man who had to go to the city hall refused to go in till they took away the paintings of half naked woman. The paintings were art from a dutch painter. What suprised me most is that we actualy did it for him. Also muslim docters here don't have to threat and shake the hands of womans. I can keep giving more examples. But I think it's clear.

So in Turkey there's no such thing as a ginecologist ?

Not all Muslims follow extreme variants like featured in the video.

Thanks El. I wasn't going to say anything.

yeah Uranium has a shit long half life, it will still be there after OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND years (literally). the radiation means stable and strong structures that can take shitloads of alpha, beta, and gamma rays (they weaken the structure alot)

Must make a tempting target for terrorists. Just get your hands on some simple explosives and rupture the depot.

RaVaN, you forgot murder.

Women are also the victims of honor killings should the girl reject a father's choice of marriage, or should the girl date a guy the father does not approve of and refuses to dump him.

One thing that really pisses me off, is the fact that if a muslim in Norway kills someone, and claims that it was an "honor killing" to the courts, he gets less time in prison.
Apperantly, that "changes" the situation slightly, so they end up with a milder sentance.

Fuck off.

Another thing that made me rage, was a guy on norwegian TV saying that "Norwegians do not understand why we muslims do these honor killings, simply because Norwegians have no honor"

Hope you choke on your fucking kebab you cunt, rofl.


edit:

Also just realised 11th September is coming up. I suggest someone crash a 747 into that fucking mosque. I vote for Rifleman!

I heard about the honor killings the other day. That shit is seriously fucked up.

here in egypt, an honor killing would be much harder to defend because th judge can insult th other guy's religious views and basically cal him an idiot.
there is a problem with religious difference being held above all else, although this problem applies ONLY TO EXTREMISTS. moderates by definition do not care enough to kill someone over religion

inb4religiousdebate

I wasn't planning to post here ,giving to the fact that I'm a Muslim and any thing I say maybe taken as defensive by you.
but there are a few point of views here I want to make clear :

one :you all know me ,and By now you should know that I'm no extremist and very open minded
two: I don't exactly love atheists ,but I have no problem with anyones religion ,as long as they don't insult mine .
three:I don't exactly have Elanzer's convincing abilities ,but I'll give it my best.

all I ask is for you to keep an open mind .

now let's see what we have here....



That has nothing to do with Islam ,In fact this is exactly what Islam is fighting against .
if this is right then it's plain ignorance and stupidity and has absolutely what so ever nothing to do with Islam.



True... Islam prohibited looking at naked women ,but that doesn't mean that if you walk in a street full of half naked women ,that you must close your eyes and walk blindly .It simply mean that you don't actually seek and pursuit that need.that's all ,so this man was not acting on islamic tendency or anything ,he was simply being an extremist ,and you really should kick him out.

as for doctors not treating women , that is just plain stupidity ,Islam researchers states that a doctor may treat a man or women all the same ,it's happening in Iraq ,and Infact a friend of mine is working as a nurse in a hospital ,He's seen too many women half naked (in critical locations too) all in medical purposes.
although some women prefer to go to a lady doctor for their own convenience ,but rarely the doctor is the one who refuses to treat a lady.


too true EL ,too true.


Like I said above Islam discourage murders no matter what reason they have, and there is NO such thing as honor killing in Islam .
true... adultery is a great sin in Islam , but for singles ;it's punishment (as stated in Quran) is to be beaten with a belt (not sure of the term in english).
as for marriage cheating ,yes the punishment is death,though these punishments are no longer being used in modern Islam .


Like the above there are no such "honor killings" .


exactly true ,but people often mix extremists with being "too religious" ,Extremists have absolutely NOTHING to do with religion ,NOTHING.




If any of my statements feel beyond believe to any of you ,feel free to read Quran and see for your selfs .

One thing I've always wondered, Change is if men are punished just as harshly as women if they commit these crimes. I don't want to hear from the rest of you biggets, Change's answer is fine for me.

Change summed it all up.


Preferably not extremist editions.

to read the Quran you will need to learn arabic...

There are a lot of english translations, some of them good.

You just try to separate everything that's bad from the islam making it look better. All those examples are derivations of islamism and most of those people in those situations (If not all of them) would consider themselves islamists. Ain't that right ?

Also

No one cares.

thank you Rifleman.

I can see that, lol. But my post was directed to MR.Change

Just to add something to what MR.Change said:

Atheism isn't a religion, it's lack thereof. Atheists believe in god about as much as you believe in unicorns and fairies. Just clarification, no offense intended. Most atheists don't "hate" god because you can't hate something you don't believe in, but some of us have a certain contempt for those of extreme faith since we see it as an obstruction to human and intellectual development.

However, many atheists get agitated with people of strong faith because of how most religions either try to convert you or condescend by saying they will pray for our souls. Luckily for myself, living in one of the more secular states, I don't have to put up with it nearly as much as some others. The biggest pet peeve I have is with people who want to blur or erase the line between religion and government and do things like teach the creation story in public schools, or exercise extreme forms of censorship to the point that it eliminates freedom of speech (Freedom of Speech is something, in my opinion, that should be considered universally sacred). I have a right to my own opinion, and you have your right to yours. I may not agree with your opinion, but I will die to defend your right to voice it. That doesn't mean however that I will "agree to disagree" simply to avoid offending somebody. If you're offended then that's not my problem, and you should learn to deal with it, after all words and opinions never hurt anybody. It's the people who act on them that do.

Notice in any post I've ever made in terms of religion that I try my best to use objective reasoning rather than to flat out insult people or their religions based on their beliefs. If somebody takes offense to that, then all I can say is that you need to step back, take a deep breath, and come back down to Earth.

Sorry for wall of text BTW, my fingers move on their own when I get on a roll.

Men and women are equal before Islam in most cases ,so to answer your question ,Yes they are punished equally to any crime that they commit , just like any other good justice system.


One of the advantages of being a Muslim ,is that there is only one Quran ,therefore there is no such thing as extremists editions ,and normal edition ,there is only one edition.
as for where the differences come from (extremists and normal people) , unfortunately people don't look for directions in Quran anymore , Instead they listen to "Immams" @anyone who doesn't know who those are :an Immam is someone like the Pope ,only a small time one .anyway Terrorists and other organizations have made use of this thing ,making there own Immams and there own directions ,especially in forgin countries ,and unfortunately these directions and preaches ;also known as "Fatwa" are believed by naive muslims all over the world .
because otherwise tell me , do you really think that there is even a slight chance that there is a religion which orders the killing of innocent 10 years old kids ,cause that's what happened in Iraq with this fake Jihad of theirs ,they blowed up a number of Elementary schools ,while kids were inside studying ,That's only one example,there are a lot more.
so fuck a religion that order such things.


There are english translations .



I think you just made my point stronger ,as I already stated that extremists always say that they are muslims ,while infact they have nothing to do with Islam.

oh and by the way I wasn't trying to separate everything bad from Islam o make it look better ,I was simply stating facts.

tell me something ,how do you state your opinions on Islam ? I'll answer that ,by seeing how muslims react ,and for that I can only blame those so called muslims .here let me give you an example of what was going to happen if I was an extremist :first I would come here and start calling you names ,and other shit like that ,then I would log off for ever and never come back here again ,simply because you hate Islam .
so you really shouldn't judge the book by it's cover ,but rather read it ,and understand it ,before you give a judgment.



I think you miss understood me ,my post was not directed to anyone in particular , just a general notion .

oh and yes ,I know what Atheism means ,there is no need to clarify.

i know, but if anything in the Quran is seen as wrong in an english version, the immediate reaction would be to say the actual meaning was lost in translation. reading it in arabic means reducing the amount of defensive excuses.

I'm not judging any book, How could I judge it if I didn't read it ? And never will.

Cut out all the rest because you don't need to educate me, I spent a good 5 years studying Islam during my education and that's enough to know the basics.

There is extremist slanted copies of the Qur'an, thousands of them are produced by the likes of Saudi Arabia and (to a lesser extent) Iran daily - mainly for consumption by foreign Muslim populations for whatever nefarious reasons I can't care to think about.

Even the 'official' Qur'an itself can't really claim to be correct, it's been subject to so many translations throughout history it's potentially lost a lot of it's original meaning already, it's based more on interpretation than the bible which is really saying something.

Amen to that.

Well.....if you want to learn Arabic just to read Quran ,Then I raise my hat to you , but you should know that it won't be easy.


If you have been studying it for 5 years ,then I have studied it for my hole life time ,and I think that gives my words more credibility ,don't you?
If you want to debate it ,then fine let's do this your way.
first:Quran's original language was Arabic ,so there was no need to translate it throughout history.
two:at the early stages of Islam (the golden ages if you ask me) Quran was put together in one book and was preserved and hand copied throughout history .
three:If Quran was really lost through historical event like you said ,there would be more than just one copy and there would be different groups following different books ,like it is with the Bible.
four:Arabic language is a difficult one ,and Quran's arabic script is an extremely powerful script ,that it is confirmed by researchers that it is not man made .
fifth:there are information stored in Quran that were not known back then when islam came .example :salt water of the sea and fresh water of rivers don't mix at there joint .(sorry my terminology is a bit weak here).

here is a link from a quick search I made on google to make it easier for you to believe me HERE

for a small version ,this is what it talks about :




apologies if the translation is not 100% accurate .I used google's translaions ,but I think you got the Idea.

have been speaking arabic my entire life...living in egypt (not muslim) although i do not speak really well.

about the salinity, i have heard that before, and is it not possibl that in his travels muhhamed learned about that and decided to include it to add credibility?

Well.....if you want to learn Arabic just to read Quran ,Then I raise my hat to you , but you should know that it won't be easy.


If you have been studying it for 5 years ,then I have studied it for my hole life time ,and I think that gives my words more credibility ,don't you?
If you want to debate it ,then fine let's do this your way.
first:Quran's original language was Arabic ,so there was no need to translate it throughout history.
two:at the early stages of Islam (the golden ages if you ask me) Quran was put together in one book and was preserved and hand copied throughout history .
three:If Quran was really lost through historical event like you said ,there would be more than just one copy and there would be different groups following different books ,like it is with the Bible.
four:Arabic language is a difficult one ,and Quran's arabic script is an extremely powerful script ,that it is confirmed by researchers that it is not man made .
fifth:there are information stored in Quran that were not known back then when islam came .example :salt water of the sea and fresh water of rivers don't mix at there joint .(sorry my terminology is a bit weak here).

here is a link from a quick search I made on google to make it easier for you to believe me HERE

for a small version ,this is w

Did I just interpret that the wrong way? Or are you saying that the "litterature" in the Quran wasnt written by humans?

No, he said that it is not man made. Obviously, women wrote it. (Ironic eh?)


(Also, the example that you provided:

is not a particularly strong example of the people of the day knowing things they "could not have known" because this is easily observable even from the ground. Have you ever been to a river delta and see the two distinct colours of water? Google River Deltas and you'll see what I'm talking about. A much better example would be their knowledge that the world was round and revolved around the Sun - of course they did not know that because they believed the world to be flat, and that the Earth was the center of the universe. It wasn't until true men of science used triangulation to determine that the Earth was round.)

Link to the Encyclopedia Brittanica on the subject.

why did you post that twice? or is my computer just fucking up?