NO NO NO NO NO NONO.



NO.

OH NOES!!!

I knew this was going to happen when i played SWG because back a few months ago most of the dev team and some other people quit to go work on a different game for LA which rumored to be KOTOR MMO.

As a huge mmo fan, i'm kinda afraid, really, i hope that this mmo isn't fucked over, and i hope they stick with the time line rather then be SWG and have two different time lines mixed up.

MMNO...nice one El.

MMO ftl

that sucks.

I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

+1 prize to you.

Damn right!

I saw it, didn't think to post it.

Same, oh well. I can see why he is sad about kotor going mmo anyway. I feel the same way almost.

And that's coming from an MMO addict ladies and gents.

Indeed
Not so much an addict, but i really enjoy them.

I'm just fearful, i mean, everyone knows kotor is an turn base type rpg. I attack, then he attacks, ect. I don't know how there going to make KOTOR unique rather then just an other copy.
And in kotor everyone is a jedi, so they will hopefully add tons of professions/classes rather then everyone be jedi and make jedi an alpha-class unlockable.
Guess we just have to wait a while and see what they cook up.

Jedis are nearly extinct by KOTOR2 though.

One thing you don't really understand is, mmo's tend to butcher the timeline depending on the dev team.

...

I understand that perfectly well, that's why I hate them.

Wha-? Did Guns actually make sense...and did Elanzer actually AGREE with him?

OH MA LAWDS! also, I read in a dutch gaming magazine that I picked up yesterday that Bethesda, the company behind Fallout 3 and the Elder Scrolls series is now developing an mmo of unconfirmed storyline. The team was put together last year apparently.

Off topic but sorreh. Guns I recognize your sig where is it from.

nobody finds my news about a bethesda MMO scathing? wow.

Also, just click on where it says "do you want to know more?" in gun's sig. it will take you to a youtube video that I've not watched.

stop being a pussy and click it you faggot. It is the propaganda from the movie Starship troopers.

I clicked it guns is telling the truth... marines doing they're jobs by killing bugs with guns.

I'm never afraid of watching youtube videos (I'm honestly THAT brave). My internet here is just awful dial-up so I can't be bothered.

Sigh. Apparently there may be an announcement coming later this month.

Yeah i seen that.

As i said before, i'm excited and worried at the same time.

We will have to wait and see, as i said before really mixed feelings.

bumpdittlybump cause today is the joint announcement form lucasarts and bioware about the new game.
the muthafuckin source, bitches

Well, that's KOTOR alright.

Edit: Yeah, it's called TOR, as in The Old Republic. KOTOR minus the KO, the KO being everything that was great about the series. Set 300 years later, MMO, poor graphics, extraordinarily tedious, that's about it.

I'm afraid now.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/43649.html

It looks alot like SWG before all the shitty updates.

It looks a lot like KOTOR ruined by SWG MMO shittiness.

Put in mind, when SWG first came out. IT was a fantastic game. It was very different and it wasn't like any other mmo it was a unique mmo. But keep in mind the key word. When it first came out. (Pub 1 to 13). Then it went to shit.

I dunno what to think, i hope it don't end up being some clone or something. WIth shitty game mechanics.

An MMO can never be fantastic.

0 story, 0 action, 0 atmosphere, 0 lag-free gameplay, 0 skill.

Maximum holding down mouse 1 for an hour to complete yet another repetitive fetchquest and win a 'special' item everyone else who does the same gets too.

Wrong, Wrong, and wrong again.

lots of story if anything. Everything you do has a story, which leads to another story. And in the end everything you do leads up to the main story/plot.

MMO's have lots of action, massive PvP battles, massive instance battles, ect. Lag is rarely an issue, the only time lag is an issue is if something is about to go down or crash. But if your internet is shit then of course you will lag.

and skill, that can be argued. Most raids that are 24 man raids take skill, you have to coordinate attacks, the slightest slip up can fuck up the whole thing and you have to restart which is a costly when the instance is is parts and takes days to finish.

I think you're confusing a background story with a narrative, so let me rephrase. There's no narrative because no single character is special in any way, it's just thousands of people people milling around in a respawning universe doing the same quests which are the same for everybody. To get a proper narrative you'd need to write as many different ways through a plot as there is players on the server, which is impossible. If you kill an NPC giving ques- oh wait you can't it would ruin it for everyone else. If you complete a quest does it disappear and the NPC go off and butcher a whole town because you helpe- oh no it's just not offered to you specifically any more and they do absolutely fuck all. There is no player influence of plot whatsoever, you just all sit around and let the developers propel you into a new environment via a feeble expansion pack loosely explained by background fluff, which not 1 of the millions of players had absolutely any influence on. It is an empty, pointless world.

Lag exists, it's a fact that thousands of people on a single server will inevitably strain it. And if I'm sharing a game world with a few hundred clones of myself which is an annoyance as it is, I do not want them being unresponsive, juddering, and teleporting, and I want my hits to connect instantly. But there is apparently no lag? Then provide me with proof of a full MMO server with action going on with a good (say, under 20MS) latency among players, because I've never seen one. And before you try to blame my connection again I have an 8mb ADSL line with one of the top ISPs in the country within 100 metres of the local phone exchange in a rural area and hardly have to share with neighbours although with a 20:1 contention ratio I wouldn't really have to anyway, all in all meaning I fairly often get pings of 5 in an average FPS, and that's without pissing about with any network settings or cfgs like some people do to artificially improve their latency. So please indulge me.

Skill is not pointing at a target and holding mouse 1 while now and then using your free hand to push a shortcut or two to unleash a series of spells, then repeating it over and over and over until the grind is over. There's a reason MMOs are so boring and casual-friendly, and their lack of skill requirements is why.

Yeah sure, lag exists, but it is barely noticeable. Rarely do people encounter rubber banding, teleporting and delayed combat. Sure you run in to it every now and then, but it isn't like it is on 24/7 effecting gameplay. When you do experience lag and such it is because of a hardware failure with the sever or it is being shut down or it is about to crash. But if it is running normally, you shouldn't be getting lag at all. IT should be running smoothly, and none of your actions should be delayed.

And the whole story shit and how you can't kill them because -oshi you will ruin it for everyone else is wrong. You can kill them, all they do is respawn for the other people. But you never see it again. The same can be said for other quests. For example the seige of one of the capital citys, not everyone seen it when it was activated, the people who didn't have the requirements could stay in the city and do what they normally do, but to the people who did meet the requirement and had the quest saw a city in flames and had to do the quest save it.

Sure you hold a button, target something, and click a macro on your toolbar. But it isn't just like "LOL I HIT THIS BUTTUN AND WINZ." Sure your hitting multiple macros but you have to time it correctly and manage your stats. And you have to use the right attacks and skills for that target. Anyone can spam a skill and try to kill something, skill comes in when you know how to properly kill something most efficiently. It all depends on your class and skill set. If that is the case the same can be said about TF2, no skill required any halfwit can hold the mouse button down and fire off. But that isn't accurate, sure you shoot alot, but you got to work with other classes and know how to use your class to function properly and win the battle. The same thing happens in a MMO.



Now i know MMO's aren't the best games ever, there also not the worse. But i know if a MMO made properly can be fantastic. And unfortunately a majority of mmo player base makes the rest of us look bad. But in reality mmo's can be quiet complex depending on the type of mmo.

Now i can agree if your rant is targeted towards WoW, i play WoW and know it isn't best mmo and i know it is one of the simplest mmo's depending on your playing style.

Most mmo's have something different, but right now the market for mmo's is saturated with Everquest and WoW clones and bring nothing new to the table. But back in the day, SWG was the game that was unique, completely different, and had plenty to do. But the SWG that is out now with the shitty updates is simply a wow clone and you can blame LA and SOE for that one, fucking bastards had to ruin it.

I can share your fear with this new TOR MMO's, and i'm quiet worried, i don't want this to end up being a flop or a completely and utter failure that will ruin the good name of KOTOR. If this MMO is to be good, it is going to have to go beyond the standards of KOTOR.

Like I said I'll believe it when I see it, and I haven't seen it in all the years MMOs have existed.


And what do other people see? Someone killing an NPC, running off, and then it reappearing as if nothing happened and giving out a quest? And what about the guy who did kill him if like you say it just doesn't respawn? He just sees a group of people standing around talking to nobody. This is my point, it's ridiculous. As if seeing a group of people gathered around an NPC getting the very same quest wasn't immersion-killing enough as it was.


Which is pretty much what I said - Everyone gets the same quests, nothing you do ingame is unique or special to your character at all. The fact these server-wide quests in this scenario only affect certain players at any given time is even worse, for a similar reason to the last point above - massive inconsistency. Walking up to another character and going "oh look that city is on fire and crawling with enemies" "what? it looks normal to me" "oh lol I guess you need to level up more to see". Spits in the face of a narrative or any form of immersion.


Sure, and it's all done via a range of shortcut keys or a click on the toolbar. Boring, no skill required. "LOL I HIT THIS BUTTUN AND WINZ" sums it up nicely. And no having to press a different spell for a different enemy doesn't make it any less so.

As for the comparison with TF2, just no. TF2 isn't snail-paced and actually requires 2 hands, it's not comparable to an MMO for skill requirements.

Lmao, you just don't get the whole planning concept, building a skill set, properly executing, it does take skill. It isn't like ohshi you got to be pro. But you got to use your head and actually think before you jump in and know what your doing.

Also to the whole everyone gets the same quests, and nothing ingame is special. You can say that about any game, everyone buys the same copy of the game, people play the same/if not closely similar characters, they do the same missions/quests/objectives, they uses the same gear, weapons, special ability ect.

Don't say I don't understand it when you've bundled strategy-orientated 'planning concept' and 'building skillset' stages in with skill-orientated 'properly executing' stage.

The first two can apply to most games on some level. CoH - You go through the 'planning concept' (plan your strategy with teammates / to suit playstyle and map), you build your 'skill set' (unit upgrades, commander tree choices). Or TF2 - You go through the 'planning concept' (pick your class appropriate to map and what the team needs), and you build your 'skill set' (choosing the right weapon set, eg. ubercharge or kritzkrieg, minigun or natascha).

That's strategy, knowledge of the game mechanics. Not skill. Most games require it on some level, MMOs usually a fair bit more than any FPS. Nobody ever denied that. The point is even a brain damaged 5 year old with no limbs could have mastery of strategy in a game.

On the other hand, 'properly executing' is skill, actual manual dexterity, a keen eye, quick reactions. Some games require it more than others, and MMOs are consistently in the latter camp. The manual dexterity required in an MMO is (usually) little more than holding a key (or, don't some actually have an attack autopilot mode? I bet there's mega-skillz required for that) to hack away at an opponent and pressing the occasional shortcut key where appropriate to cast x spell / heal. Something that, well, to use the example again, maybe just a normal brain damaged 5 year old could do.

Now that's cleared, on to every game being the same - yes, of course. But incase it's not clear enough already I'll say it again - The point is in a single player RPG your character is the hero, in their own world, with their own story, not just another hapless pawn clone and the 753rd hero in the game world. Anything you do affects the whole world. Any item you find belongs to you and only you, there won't be another character wandering around with it. Really, you shouldn't even go there with the whole single player RPG vs MMORPG argument - The single player RPG always delivers a better story, a better world, better visuals, better gameplay, and you don't have to pay for them every month. A better game.

The only feasible thing that I would consider getting a MMO for is to try to immerse yourself in the world, exploring seeing things you have read/played in a previous title and having fights (lackluster but there) against foes that are well thought out. Its open world so thats a plus, but really MMOs for established franchises (WOW,WAR,LOTRO etc) would be the only feasible ones to me. To take part in just a random MMO would be a disappointment.