Hitting Mr Invincible
Posted by MadHatter :: Sun 18th Sep 2005 :: 26 Comments
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“You mean I can dodge bullets?” - Not Now!
The main culprit behind all of this cannot be pinned down to slow connections, or high ping... But down to one thing:
Everyone is running at different speeds.
Rates in CS are simply the amount of information people send and receive during the game, and the frequency of it. There are 3 numbers 'rate' – how much data in bytes per second you can receive.
Update Rate – number of times per second you request the new data from the server (about positioning, who killed who, that sort of stuff).
And Cmd Rate – number of times per second you send data to the server about what you are doing in the game (your position, where you're looking while camping, what weapon you have in your hand, when you shot, who you shot, and if you hit them and where... all that stuff!).
Some people run cs with high rates for more accurate position information 25000 100 100. But some people run the default rates at 10000 30 20.
The problem of course, is that one player can only receive position information about a slow player at the speed he is sending it. Which defeats the object of requesting lots of data fast.
So, some players send information saying that they just hit someone... but because they are running slowly in the game, they haven't even sent the information saying they have gone to that position to get hit yet! All because of this 'guess work'.
Things to make it 'work right':- Remove the server calculation.. the player sees the player hits. the player sends confirmation of hit and paints the blood.
No arguing, the server just accepts that, and sends that data to the rest of the players, killing the person who just got pwnd. - CL_interp is the amount of guess work that each client does... and everyone can change their rate. So, instead of having it fixed, have this change throughout the game depending on how much traffic is going on.
So, if it's 1v1, there's no-one else left alive... our lowly internet connections can cope with receiving full position data about both players, no need to guess where they are.
But, when it's 10v10, the interpolation rate needs to change so we don't need as much data to guess where we are. Now you're going to say “Wait, but then we'll miss like you said earlier!” - Well, there is a solution to this too! - Don't allow clients to change their rate settings. Let's face it, us mere humans are far less intelligent than these 'computer' things. So let the server control the clients rates according to the data flow, each persons ping.
Now to fix the guess work problem.... - Change interpolation so everyone is doing the same amount of guessing and coming up with the same answers about where everyone in the game is. This rate can change throughout the game as shown in the 2nd point.
This way you could also play a game with around 500ping with no drawback or effect on the game. Because everyone is seeing the same thing, just 500ms after it's happened.... but everyone is seeing it late, so it doesn't make a difference.
We don't claim to have all the answers, but hopefully this article has explained what's going wrong in the game, and shed light on a few ideas that could improve it.
Credits:
John 'Commando' Richardson (Tech Info)
Elliot 'MadHatter' Haughin (English Translation)
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Posted by ||Xecutioner07|&# |
Nice read!
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Posted by bellmar |
^^^
signed
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Posted by dirtbikeths |
wooo the l337ness of the server astounds me...hahaha
Right on =D
-Bad Coupon
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Posted by Crazy Asian256 |
hmm, thats some good pice of info, but also, uif u shoot ur teammate, u can leave blood decals on them too
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Posted by DarthPod |
well at least the next time the 'mystic death' occurs or we see a ct/t looking like they've had a dunk in a bloodbath we can consider this...and sigh 
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Posted by ||Xecutioner07|&# |
Happens to me alot...****** high ping!
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Posted by EbolaBoy |
So lowering my ping has no affect when playing with people of high ping?
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Posted by Xine |
A great article for such a terrible situation. You illustrated the ugliness of Source hit-boxes perfectly, and with a possible solution no less. There's lot's of talk about this issue going on in every server I play on and no one really seems to understand it, but you just lifted the curtain. Hopefully many will read this.
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Posted by ||Xecutioner07|&# |
Ya, it truly does tell the exact tale of the CS:S hitboxes.
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Posted by cdiggit |
Yes well written, great job with the personification of all the computer mumbo jumbo , thanks im sure that clears up a whole lot of misguided anger here and there.
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Posted by Kage |
Nice Article ^^
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Posted by commando |
Any programmers with experience in net code except the ones that wrote the valve net code should no that they did such a shoddy job and they should be ashamed they released such a final product.
I would also like valve to actually give the reasons they never really looked into the code and fixed there errors. But that won’t happen. They will most likely guard that it is fine.
And. Yea hopefully valve will one day take note! and relies they need to learn how to do an online multiplayer net code!
Until then this game is not what I’d call fair play or even close to it. But hey its fine according to valves replies in the past. But im sure they will give the same reasons and excuse this time to!
Hope you all read it and understood the things valve missed.
Players not syncing giving them greater advantage and making others god etc..
Not what I would call the best fps ever as they have printed on the front of the case. But more like the most unfair online multiplayer game ever created.
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Posted by Ev0 |
Mad you should e-mail that article to Valve, I'm gonna have a look at how may Netcode topics there are on the Steam fourms and spam them with requests for a fix of the Netcode. SAS, Nuke etc. it can all wait, VALVE GET THIS SORTED FIRST!
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Posted by Gerard Way |
mine doesnt show blood when i shoot them im gutted sum 1 help me btw my pc issnt that good and neither the grafix card but my m8 has a worse 1 and stil l sees blood!
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Posted by ||Xecutioner07|&# |
It makes me angry, valve DO SOMETHING!
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Posted by luke10123 |
Interesting, but what about those people that iv heard about with sniper rifles that aim + shoot for them, and can hit you right between the eyes after 1 hundredth of a second! its just wrong
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Posted by IndigoCloak |
In regards to your question, Luke, there can be 3 exlpanations... 1) It's the speed at which your game updates data; if your data flow is slower, it will appear that the player who shot you just scoped in and fired within milliseconds, but it's not always so. 2) It's a possible headshot script, or you're in a non-secure server and someone has an aimbot. 3) They lurk in their mother's basement playing CS:S so much that they've perfected the ability to sit and have the speed in their fingers only.
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Posted by FuNnY_MaN |
All i have to add here is that it all comes down to 2 things 1-TOTALLY differnet broadband speeds which leeds me onto no 2 LAAA aa AaagG yes lag we all get it sometimes created by all of us haveing different broadband speeds think back to the days of 1.6 when every one had 56k did so many ppl complain of lag? nope not as much complain about css lag... so i think (just a suggestion) valve should regulate broadband speeds from users so that they are all the same hence creating less lag (i think)  btw the pic of the fella with 100 hp and blood all over his head is a result of you seeing him in one place but him being in another due to lag times and internet speeds (dont hold me to any of this its only what i think)
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Posted by dave bowman |
there's nothing here about how the (silly) hitboxes work. hitboxes are a good idea, but they usually proceed the player by a rediculus distance. hitbox advance should depend more on how far I AM away from my target, right  ? right! also, ever notice how 2 people, both perfectly sure of their shot, can spend all day shooting at eachother before either of them die? thats not because of a lost position packet. thats an intended regulatory control put in place by valve or steam or w/e. they do that in order to make the game playable for utter drooling noobs who have not the slightest idea of what to do on a (simulated) battlefield. otherwise, you wouldnt have players with 1000 kills and a k/d of like 3 or 4 being considered "gods". you would have players of 1000 kills with k/d's of like 40 or 50, long term players who know what to do. - fact. another fact, i want a realistic effing wargame, one where, if youre a noob, and youre clumsy, then you die before you know whats about to hit you. i dont want a program to feel sorry for a noob, which is in essence what counter strike does. and the purpose of making the game playable for sheer droolers? money. obviously no one wants to play a game that pwns them continuously. popularity of this game would go not be as great if only dexterous people could be successful at it. well anyway, perhaps there will be other internet war games to choose from one day that wont be as "generous" as css. i still love the css.
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Posted by nicko678 |
i totally agree. How can people ever learn if valve sweetens the game up?? Theres many a time when ive thrown my mouse in disgust because ive empied clips at people at point blank range. Gamings about skill, not sympathy
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Posted by medical_mechanica |
Your defintion of skill is chance, then?
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Posted by canosgmk1 |
Very Nicely done. Now we can all stop yelling Hack!! lol. Now we can yell. CRAP ! ... lol. The one thing I would like to find out, added different Skin; would it affect the "guess" work placement. Sence it is a non-triditional format?
Armyband???
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Posted by SHady 911 |
good now we don't need to call them asscrack heckers no more
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Posted by gunny8oy |
Great read guys really helped us out alot,all the best.
Lion,O
hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Posted by how do u like me now |
now thats sorted out neways i cant change my graphics level cuz i have "insufficient memory" ,do i need a new graphics card, or is there a way 2 fix it!!! if so e-mail simon_yodude@hotmail.com
Ill luv u 4ever cuz i can only play iceworld/aim hall/blood_strike ect
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Posted by Ionizer4269 |
Holy ******znit, i like that alot.. that explains to my noob friends running on dial up why they dont hit me even when there is blood all over my face!
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